Episode 14: Intellectual property management

Synopsis

The new season of the Intellectual Property Show looks at intellectual property management from the multinational corporate to the small start-up. This week we speak to Morne Barradas from Sasol.

Transcript

The new season of the Intellectual Property Show looks at intellectual property management from the multinational corporate to the small start-up. This week we speak to Morne Barradas from Sasol.

STEPHAN LAMPRECHT: Welcome to a brand new season of the Summit TV Intellectual Property Show. The new series will focus more on the corporate aspects of intellectual property - join me as I interview guests representing the full spectrum from multinationals to start-up enterprises. South Africa is in a very desirable position within the Organisation of Economic Development and Corporation (OECD )in so far as its industry investment and academic research is the highest of all those measured. I’m now joined by Morne Barradas to talk about the role of universities and external entities in helping Sasol develop future products and technologies. Morne, tell us a little bit about your role regarding intellectual property within Sasol…

MORNE BARRADAS: I’ve been with Sasol for nearly 15 years - I’m an intellectual property legal advisor and qualified patent attorney, and my role within Sasol is basically to make sure that we protect our intellectual property (IP), also to ensure that we don’t run into unnecessary IP risks.

STEPHAN LAMPRECHT: These are not exact figures - I think more or less two-thirds of all research and development spend in South Africa is done by the private sector, and of that more or less half of that comes from Sasol - is that correct?

MORNE BARRADAS: Yes. Our research support especially to the South African universities runs into several millions of rands - there’s a whole spectrum that we cover with those research funds.

STEPHAN LAMPRECHT: How important are the universities in the development of your new products and technologies?

MORNE BARRADAS: Extremely important. We have basically three different avenues that we consider allocating research funds to South African universities - the first is capacity building to ensure that we get the scientists and engineers back into the company, the second is research grants that we offer to them. That is basically to enhance the development of science and technology in South Africa. The third aspect that we have is what we call contract research - that is on specific projects where Sasol may not have in-house resources in terms of people and apparatus to conduct the research themselves.

STEPHAN LAMPRECHT: So of those three more or less the last one is the big component - strategic research, the things that are really integral to your future development?

MORNE BARRADAS: Yes, indeed.

STEPHAN LAMPRECHT: Do you see that as a growth scenario in terms of the use of universities and external parties?

MORNE BARRADAS: We would like to see that as a growth area. We believe that we do get very valuable results back based on this contract research.

STEPHAN LAMPRECHT: Is that limited to South African institutions, or is it all over the world?

MORNE BARRADAS: No, it’s definitely all over the world - we deal with universities abroad as well.

STEPHAN LAMPRECHT: Obviously being a big South Africa company you would prefer working in South Africa I would imagine - also for the two components being skills development and getting new staff into Sasol one would imagine - is that right?

MORNE BARRADAS: Yes, indeed. Where we can we do work with South African universities…

STEPHAN LAMPRECHT: I think one of the more recent developments with regards to the issue of using universities in the industrial development of innovation is the draft legislation on publically developed intellectual property - what is your view regarding this legislation?

MORNE BARRADAS: We have been involved with the draft Bill since early 2003, and we’ve gone through the various scenarios of how it has panned out. What we are now sitting with is basically a scenario where research - which has been in part funded by government - will now be subject to certain rules that are clarified in the Bill. There are basically three scenarios. One is where mainly public funds are being used for that - where private industry will only be able to obtain exclusive licences for the research. Full ownership goes to the universities. The second scenario is exactly the same - that’s a co-funding scenario where public funds have been applied, but where private industry has an inventor or inventors also participating on the research project. In that scenario one can apply for co-ownership of the IP rights. The third scenario in the Bill is where it is fully funded by the private company - in that instance full intellectual property rights will be owned by the private company.

STEPHAN LAMPRECHT: Often when think about new types of legislation the question one would like to ask is what’s the problem we are trying to fix? What mistakes are were trying to not make in terms of bringing in this new legislation? Why do we have this legislation?

MORNE BARRADAS: The whole intention from government’s side is to ensure that at least intellectual property is protected where public funds were allocated to its development.

STEPHAN LAMPRECHT: So typically that’s the stuff that happens at university - are they actually protecting it, and are they securing the future commercial benefits of the intellectual property?

MORNE BARRADAS: Indeed.

STEPHAN LAMPRECHT: How do you see that changing the way that you are currently interfacing with universities?

MORNE BARRADAS: I think the biggest current problem with the draft legislation is some uncertainty in how exactly the terminology used within the legislation will be interpreted in future. Definitely never in any of our discussions with the government was it ever the intention on fully privately funded research - that they want to take any ownership away from the private companies. So we see this in a positive light. We believe there are a few teething problems - to sort out exactly the interpretation behind the Bill.

STEPHAN LAMPRECHT: That’s a very valid point that you are making - from a university point of view we always joke about the thesis papers that sit on bookshelves that we don’t see the benefit of. In a country like South Africa we can’t spend money on things that don’t address our social and economic problems. So I can understand that motivation, but I think within the scope of your discussion with government - and I’m sure this extends beyond just Sasol to other key players like Anglo American, Sappi and so on - what is their point of view? Is this going to take us one step further forward? How do you see that panning out?

MORNE BARRADAS: I do believe that there may be initial hesitation maybe from industry partners until there’s more certainty on how it will be interpreted - but I don’t forsee this as a major stumbling block. I think in our discussions up to now with government we’ve made major progress in clarifying certain aspects of the legislation, and in the long term I don’t believe that it will severely impact the relationship between industry and South African universities.

STEPHAN LAMPRECHT: Is there any aspect of this Bill that you would like to change, or bring something else on board to really make it go many steps further in terms of leveraging the universities in terms of research and development?

MORNE BARRADAS: I think if we can obtain clarity on exactly what is meant by “full funding by private industry” that will resolve most of industry concerns with the Bill. As I’ve already mentioned the whole intention behind the legislation - we do support that, also the other industry partners do support that - believing that it will move us to better communication with the South African universities. It may just cause some delays in sorting out the contractual aspects related to giving effect to the Bill.

STEPHAN LAMPRECHT: So what we are talking about here is very much an issue of confidence, and having a horizon that we can work towards in terms of certainty in working with the universities - I trust we can get this right to ensure we don’t constrain the golden goose of new thinking and research within our universities with legislation and polices.